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Post by Celtic Jaeger on Sept 15, 2004 22:38:04 GMT -5
I was working on firewood today and all of a sudden this kinda funny, yet potentialy serious scenario just came and popped up in my head...so I thought I'd see what ya'll would do. Here goes:
You and your four man team are on a recon patrol of a not so friendly to the patriot movemnet part of your AO.
You set up your temporary base camp in a bunch of cedar trees...but unbenownst to you, this general area is the local make-out point for local teens ...So there ya are, all except one security guy asleep, and all of a sudden kids start arriving. What would you do? If they spot you, they will most likely give a warning to your OPFOR. No your team does not have a video camera!
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Post by GrayGhost on Sept 22, 2004 14:23:03 GMT -5
The security guy should be able to hear a bunch of noisy, hormone influenced teens coming a mile away in the woods. He should alert the rest of the team to the danger and a plan made at that point.
If the campsite is not in immediate danger of being compromised I would sit tight and keep it lights out and silent. I would prepare a distraction if necessary to allow the team to bug out of the AO without being seen or detered.
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Post by CornFedReb on Sept 24, 2004 5:13:40 GMT -5
If the worst happens and they spot you, immediately jump up and assume a command presence!
You are a patrol of (you decide) government troops, federal, state, county, city law enforcement, deputized counter-guerilla posse, whatever. What ever you decide to call yourself it's on the side of the enemy and your hunting militant militia wackos in the AO.
Ask them what the hell they are doing screwing up a government operation with their presence! Tell them to unass the AO or they're all going to jail pronto.
Ask them if they've seen any unusual activity in the AO by aformentioned militant militia wackos and report any such activity immediately to local law enforcement.
Start taking down names and I.D. information and swear it'll be used against them if they ever "interfere" with another government operation!
Tell 'em to pack it up, get lost and tell all their friends not to interfere in the area.
All this should be done with a straight face, belligerent attitude and command presence. It'll work on kids and most adults who don't know any better all the time. The trick is to never let up and don't give them a chance or desire to ask stupid questions or take in to much visual information 'cause they're scared $hitle$$ of going to jail.
Once they're gone, bug out like a world of hurt is getting ready to come down on the grid square because it just might! Put at least one major terrain feature between you and the incident.
Any time you go out on a mission you need to prepare and agree upon a Cover for Action and a Cover for Status. Either of these could change depending on who sees you or is asking the questions.
God Save the South,
CornFedReb
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Post by IRONCLAD on Sept 25, 2004 9:10:38 GMT -5
I see that this thread has made it here.
Don't worry...I won't lock it up like Doc did on the AWRM board.
By-the-way the thread was moved at AWRM into the MOD's room.
IRONCLAD
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Post by CornFedReb on Sept 25, 2004 17:23:53 GMT -5
Don't worry...I won't lock it up like Doc did on the AWRM board. By-the-way the thread was moved at AWRM into the MOD's room. Ironclad, Please explain!?? What went wrong with it at AWRM? Seems pretty harmless to me. God Save the South, CornFedReb |
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Post by IRONCLAD on Sept 28, 2004 0:59:29 GMT -5
I don't think it had anything to do with the scenario, but with someone who hijacked it. I really didn't read what happened with it, I just saw it in the MODS room as a locked thread.
I think it was said.....not a place for this thread.....I'm not really sure.
Luckie
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Post by CornFedReb on Sept 28, 2004 1:16:24 GMT -5
Well, hey, it's an interesting and realistic scenario. Something similar happened to me and a team mate during a training exercise.
Kids ended up compromising a U.S. Special Forces team as well as an S.A.S. team during Desert Storm. It's always a threat.
In my experience, the three most common problems you will run across in the woods which will snitch you out (besides enemy combatants) are children, dogs and hunters.
God Save the South,
CornFedReb
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Post by GrayGhost on Sept 29, 2004 10:29:35 GMT -5
I agree that this scenario is realistic and should be one practiced by all teams. In a wooded enviroment, as Cornfed said, children, hunters or animals could endanger a mission in several ways.
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Post by droc0794 on Nov 16, 2004 1:21:31 GMT -5
Stick to you pre-set orders.
Is this patrol are routine security check?
Is this patrol an intelligence maneauver?
Are you to make no contact?
Once we have established the need for the patrol then we can offer up the appropriate course(s) of action
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Post by GrayGhost on Nov 16, 2004 8:30:26 GMT -5
Good post Droc, and very good points.
This scenario is a good one, but it requires more operational parameters in order to determine a proper course of action.
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Post by CornFedReb on Nov 16, 2004 17:19:51 GMT -5
I thought it was pretty straight forward myself.
FM 21-76 (Combat Training of the Individual Soldier and Patrolling) states there are two types of patrols. Reconnaissance and Combat.
Celtic stated: "You and your four man team are on a recon patrol"
Regarding the kids, Celtic stated: "If they spot you, they will most likely give a warning to your OPFOR."
Since your mission is reconnaissance, not combat you are there to recon. The fact that you have discoverd this area to be a hang-out for local kids is noteworthy information which should be passed up the chain of command for future reference.
Again, since your mission is recon, you should avoid compromise by either laying low or quietly evading the area so that you may continue your stated mission without combat.
If you are compromised by the kids you can't shoot them as they are just kids and probably aren't armed. Even to shoot AT them would be a public relations nightmare for your patriot movement.
If you are compromised and take off running with no concern for stealth, it probably wouldn't take long for the kids to realize you are the "bad guys" and inform the nearest gun toter of your presence.
That's why I say, if there is no chance of avoiding compromise, you need to bamboozle them with your BS. I've done it over a dozen times in the military to other military men who ought to know better. It always worked for me so it ought to work on kids who don't know $hit. Audacity is the key. It gives you breathing room to get out of the AO or take advantage of the OPFOR's confusion or stupidity.
By the way, if your patrol leader sets you up in a patrol base in an indefensible location with no covered or concealed exit, he needs to be replaced.
If your security man is responsible for you getting compromised he needs disciplinary action.
God Save the South,
CornFedReb
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Post by droc0794 on Nov 16, 2004 22:20:23 GMT -5
sorry, I missed the opening to this situation.
In that case, lay dog. Recon patrols are designed to avoid contact...of any type. Stick to the mission.
But, if you are spotted and there has been no order or recommendation as to your actions should you and your patrol be discovered, then those teens will be taking a little trip with you, back to HQ to let the thinkers decide what should be done.
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Post by TexasReb on Nov 17, 2004 10:37:04 GMT -5
By the way, if your patrol leader sets you up in a patrol base in an indefensible location with no covered or concealed exit, he needs to be replaced. If your security man is responsible for you getting compromised he needs disciplinary action. God Save the South, CornFedReb I like the way you think... at first that cracked me up.. but then it wasn't as funny cause you are exactly right... droc, taking the kids in would probably fall under the relations nightmare.. after all they are kids.. the media would have a ball with that.. |
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Post by GrayGhost on Nov 17, 2004 11:26:30 GMT -5
Good points Cornfed!
I was in the Rangers, and we trained a great deal on long range patrols, E & E, and stealth.
No team leader in his right mind would put you in a position where discovery would be easy. Anyone that knows anything about recon knows that avoiding detection is a priority for gathering info and completing the mission. Setting up camp or resting for the short term should be done in an area where sufficient cover will provide a screen against being observed from the ground or air. As you said Cornfed, if said TL leaves you w/ your butt hanging in the breeze he should be relieved of his duties.
Op Sec (Operational Security) is a big part of any operation. Without it, your mission is compromised, you could fail your objective, or worse, get your men killed. Security should always be provided and continuous when in the field, especially during rest phases. A team that fails to remain alert will make a mistake and mistakes cost lives. If your security man lets something like a gang of noisy kids past him, then disciplinary action is most definitely warranted.
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Post by droc0794 on Nov 17, 2004 15:19:49 GMT -5
hey texasreb...we can always spin that story on the media..  |
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