How far are we willing to go?

[droc0794]

What I mean is, how far would we take it to earn freedom, a new country for the south.

Try to view the 'what-ifs' from a number of viewpoints:

1) Leader and main decision of the new DIXIE
2) Cabinet member to the new pres. of DIXIE
3) Citizen/Slodier/Voter in the new DIXIE

There are many ways that you can look at this and many questions that you may ask pertaining to each of the 3 positions listed above.
Some questions you may have to answer may be; Will I vote for an all-out war if victory will endure our independance?; What type of political system would we use in our new DIXIE?; How much power should the new pres. of DIXIE have should we gain our freedom?; Should we immediatly set up our foreign trade policy and get it running the the northern states?; What should our immigration laws be?; Am I willing to die for the dreams of our ancestors?; These are just a few pertinant questions that we will have to answer when we finally gain our freedom

If you have more big questions post them; if you have already decided on your answers to some of these questions, post them.

Remember everyone, we need to help educate oneanother, help eachother along through this process.

Deo Vindice

Derek

[CornFedReb]

Droc,

I'd like to give my humble opinion on some of your questions.

Will I vote on an all-out war if victory will insure our independence?

Only as a member of Congress should anyone be doing any voting on war. I don't think a vote will be necessary. Once one or more States secede and form a Confederacy the U.S. will determine if there will be war or not. We prepare to defend ourselves and see what happens. A peaceful seperation is preferred but the right of self defense can never be denied. War for continued independence will not be voted on it will either be a necessity or it will not.

What type of political system will we use in our new Dixie?

I'm hoping that we will have a Republic of sovereign Republics as our forefathers of '76 and '61 envisioned. I hope that the various State Constitutions will be reworked so as to more resemble their pre-conquest Reconstruction Constitutions.

How much power should the new President of Dixie have should we gain our freedom?

Once freedom is gained he should have very limited and cleary defined powers. Most power should lie in the hands of State governors. States should be recognized as the sovereign nations they are, not just taxable provinces of a central federal government. However, if war becomes necessary in the beginning it will probably be prudent to grant the president emergency war powers that would abrogate State's rights only during hostilities. This will be decided on by Congress. President Davis was condemned for doing this but it was necessary at the time.

Should we immediately set up our foreign trade policy and get it running ? ? Northern states?

I didn't quite understand the part of the question regarding the Northern states but trade policy will be paramount to the survival of our new nation. Especially if war comes to us in the beginning we will form trade partnerships whether we like it or not with foreign nations so as to receive the implements of war and other goods necessary for our survival. If we are able to make a peaceful break with the U.S. we should carry on trade with them in any way beneficial to the South. I think after 140 years of cross immigration we just have too much connection with "those people" to be able to break away completely. There shouldn't be any reason why we can't get along with the U.S. as trade partners like the U.S. gets along with Canada. We can be good neighbors if they act right.

What should our immigration laws be?

I think most Southerners would prefer a return to an immigration policy as practiced by the U.S. prior to the 1965 Immigration Act. For more on this policy and to save space here check out the following article which originally appeared in "National Review" in Sept. 1965.

www.vdare.com.pb/haag_memoriam.htm

Additionally, we should consider the fact that there will be many people who are currently beneficiaries of the Socialist welfare state who will not want to live in our new nation. They will probably prefer to immigrate to the old U.S. to continue receiving their monthly handouts. We should encourage their departure and provide them incentives to do so.

Am I willing to die for the dreams of our ancestors?

More importantly than it being a dream of my ancestors, it is my dream and the dream of my family and kinsmen to live in a free Southland. The older I get the more I realize that dieing is not so much to ask for so noble a cause. As Christians we know that there will be life afterwards and that this life is but a vapor. But, to paraphrase a fine Southern general we should make the other poor dumb b@$t@rd die for HIS country!

Anyway, that's my opinion!

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

[IRONCLAD]

What should our immigration laws be?

I think most Southerners would prefer a return to an immigration policy as practiced by the U.S. prior to the 1965 Immigration Act. For more on this policy and to save space here check out the following article which originally appeared in "National Review" in Sept. 1965.


You see the problem with immigrates from the North is...

We'll have a problem with putting up a big enough wall from keeping darn Yankee's out of the south. You know if and when the South has a free Country again....We'll have a bigger border the nthe North.

IRONCLAD

[droc0794]

Great stuff cornfed...I agree with everything that you have said...as a matter of fact...I couldnt have said it better

As far me not being more detailed in my question pertaining to trade with the north I apologize. My point in asking was to put added emphasis on the fact that...whether we like it or not, our easiest avenue for trade will be with the north, as far as logistics are concerned, not to mention, they north has lots of money to spend. Are we willing to compromise to ensure a decent trade system with them? Before you respond to the 'compromise' portion keep in mind, there will be many obstacles between us and the north if we win our independance; high tariffs out of anger, fresh open wounds, and a overall bad mood in the north to name a few.
I know that this question is difficult to answer with any accuracy at this point, but I think that when our gov. is formed, they need to include a discussion of trade policy with the north; actual trade may not take place immediatly after we gain our freedom, but I think that we should be prepared before the opportunity meets us. Yes, we have europe and other smaller countries, but the headache of logistics and the cost for actually shipping our goods will take a good chunk of our profits.

Sorry guys, Ive been rambling on and on, more thinking out loud than anything

[GrayGhost]

CornFedReb said:

Droc,

I'd like to give my humble opinion on some of your questions.

Will I vote on an all-out war if victory will insure our independence?

Only as a member of Congress should anyone be doing any voting on war. I don't think a vote will be necessary. Once one or more States secede and form a Confederacy the U.S. will determine if there will be war or not. We prepare to defend ourselves and see what happens. A peaceful seperation is preferred but the right of self defense can never be denied. War for continued independence will not be voted on it will either be a necessity or it will not.

What type of political system will we use in our new Dixie?

I'm hoping that we will have a Republic of sovereign Republics as our forefathers of '76 and '61 envisioned. I hope that the various State Constitutions will be reworked so as to more resemble their pre-conquest Reconstruction Constitutions.

How much power should the new President of Dixie have should we gain our freedom?

Once freedom is gained he should have very limited and cleary defined powers. Most power should lie in the hands of State governors. States should be recognized as the sovereign nations they are, not just taxable provinces of a central federal government. However, if war becomes necessary in the beginning it will probably be prudent to grant the president emergency war powers that would abrogate State's rights only during hostilities. This will be decided on by Congress. President Davis was condemned for doing this but it was necessary at the time.

Should we immediately set up our foreign trade policy and get it running ? ? Northern states?

I didn't quite understand the part of the question regarding the Northern states but trade policy will be paramount to the survival of our new nation. Especially if war comes to us in the beginning we will form trade partnerships whether we like it or not with foreign nations so as to receive the implements of war and other goods necessary for our survival. If we are able to make a peaceful break with the U.S. we should carry on trade with them in any way beneficial to the South. I think after 140 years of cross immigration we just have too much connection with "those people" to be able to break away completely. There shouldn't be any reason why we can't get along with the U.S. as trade partners like the U.S. gets along with Canada. We can be good neighbors if they act right.

What should our immigration laws be?

I think most Southerners would prefer a return to an immigration policy as practiced by the U.S. prior to the 1965 Immigration Act. For more on this policy and to save space here check out the following article which originally appeared in "National Review" in Sept. 1965.

www.vdare.com.pb/haag_memoriam.htm

Additionally, we should consider the fact that there will be many people who are currently beneficiaries of the Socialist welfare state who will not want to live in our new nation. They will probably prefer to immigrate to the old U.S. to continue receiving their monthly handouts. We should encourage their departure and provide them incentives to do so.

Am I willing to die for the dreams of our ancestors?

More importantly than it being a dream of my ancestors, it is my dream and the dream of my family and kinsmen to live in a free Southland. The older I get the more I realize that dieing is not so much to ask for so noble a cause. As Christians we know that there will be life afterwards and that this life is but a vapor. But, to paraphrase a fine Southern general we should make the other poor dumb b@$t@rd die for HIS country!

Anyway, that's my opinion!

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

Very eloquently put CornFed. I could not agree more.

[CornFedReb]

IRONCLAD said:

You see the problem with immigrates from the North is...

We'll have a problem with putting up a big enough wall from keeping darn Yankee's out of the south. You know if and when the South has a free Country again....We'll have a bigger border the nthe North.

I'm not sure if we'll have to put up a wall to keep the Yankees out as our economies will probably be about equal, all things considered. If they want to come down here after the dust settles with the proper tourist passport and spend their Yankee money and then leave, that's OK with me.

The problem we're going to have that will require a wall is our border with Mexico for the same reasons as now. The U.S. government is either too cowardly to defend its own borders or they genuinly want to flood the U.S. (especially the South) with cheap foreign labor. Either way, the South as a new nation cannot continue to tolerate a flood of illegal (even legal) immigrants from Mexico.

The first and foremost duty of a country's military is to defend its own borders from invasion. Whether by thrust of the bayonet or thrust of the groin that's exactly what Mexicans are doing to us now, invading and repopulating our land and reforming it into their 3rd World image.

A moat, fence and unscalable wall garrisoned by Southern troops would be a good start towards defending our border, our people and our economy from our less than assimilable Southern neighbors.

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

[CornFedReb]

droc0794 said:

My point in asking was to put added emphasis on the fact that...whether we like it or not, our easiest avenue for trade will be with the north, as far as logistics are concerned, not to mention, they north has lots of money to spend. Are we willing to compromise to ensure a decent trade system with them? Before you respond to the 'compromise' portion keep in mind, there will be many obstacles between us and the north if we win our independance; high tariffs out of anger, fresh open wounds, and a overall bad mood in the north to name a few.

I don't think that trade with the North should be considered a compromise but rather a necessity for both North and South. And the sooner we begin trade the better.

The reason I say this is twofold. First, nations that don't trade, fight. That's a fact of life. Trade helps to open avenues of communication that are not easily broken by petty arguments.

Second, the economies of both North and South are intricately weaved together. Neither region is completely independent of the other.

Yeah, all the heavy armor is built in Detroit but try to use it when the computerized fire control system for it is made in the South.

Sure, the North might have a lot of troops and guns but when they run out of ammo what are they going to do when the largest small arms ammunition plant in the world is located in the South?

By the same token, what are Southerners going to do when we run out of usable spare parts or even whole drivable automobiles manufactured up North?

Hey, where we goin' to get our lettuce from? It's all grown out in Arizona! We'll have to get used to eating Kale in our salads!

Sure, both North and South can work out alternatives eventually but for the short term it would be advantageous for both sides to open up trade as soon as possible. NO country on the planet is completely self-sufficient but the South (and the North) will have to get themselves as close to self-sufficient as possible in the long run. It only makes good survival sense.

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

[CornFedReb]

CornFedReb said:

The problem we're going to have that will require a wall is our border with Mexico for the same reasons as now. The U.S. government is either too cowardly to defend its own borders or they genuinly want to flood the U.S. (especially the South) with cheap foreign labor. Either way, the South as a new nation cannot continue to tolerate a flood of illegal (even legal) immigrants from Mexico.

The first and foremost duty of a country's military is to defend its own borders from invasion. Whether by thrust of the bayonet or thrust of the groin that's exactly what Mexicans are doing to us now, invading and repopulating our land and reforming it into their 3rd World image.

Just in case anyone thinks I might be over dramatizing the situation we have on our Mexican border I am including a link here which should serve as a basis for your future study on the subject.

www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/05-06-2002/vo18no09_aztlan.htm

The "Nation of Atzlan" movement is probably unstoppable at this stage. I'd like to think that we can at least salvage Texas from this quagmire but I just don't know. How hard are we willing to fight to retain our Southland?

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

[Celtic Jaeger]

I'm just sitting here reading this and a thought just hit me, actually its a question... How can a bunch of soverign nation states survive against at least a shrunken US, I would suggest reading about Italy in the 1100-1500s to see what happened with that form of nation. Just a thought/question, please don't take it wrong I'd just like to see some answers.

[CornFedReb]

Celtic said:

How can a bunch of soverign nation states survive against at least a shrunken US, .

According to an article contained in the Bulletin of Atomic Acientists titled, "U.S. Nuclear Weapons Locations" dated 1995 I found some interesting facts.

5 Southern states contain about 2,328 or more nuclear warheads.

Louisiana contains the second largest stockpile of nuclear warheads in the United States at Barksdale Airforce Base. This base stores approximately 1,010 bombs and cruise missiles to arm 56 B-52H bombers.

Georgia's Kings Bay submarine base contains about 768 nuclear warheads for their subs and, of course, the subs to deliver them.

Texas contains two sites containing 350+ nuclear warheads.

Virginia contains 1 site with approximately 100 nuclear weapons.

South Carolina stores approximately 100 extra nuclear warheads and Tomahawk cruise misslies for the Navy at Charleston.

You can see this article for yourself at:

www.bullatomsci.org/issues/nukenotes/nd95nukenote.html

Understand that this information is current only of 1995 and things have changed since then but probably not by much. The U.S. is dismantling many of its nukes.

But the bottom line to all this information is an answer to Celtic's question. "How can a bunch of sovereign nation states survive against at least a shrunken US?

Do I dare to suggest any further?

God Save the South
CornFedReb

[IRONCLAD]

Celtic said:

I'm just sitting here reading this and a thought just hit me, actually its a question... How can a bunch of soverign nation states survive against at least a shrunken US, I would suggest reading about Italy in the 1100-1500s to see what happened with that form of nation. Just a thought/question, please don't take it wrong I'd just like to see some answers.

A thought comes to mine as well.

You know the old saying.... "what goes up.......must come down. And yet no one has ever proven that, what goes up....stays up.

What I mean is: Ah...you know what I am mean.

IRONCLAD

[CornFedReb]

Celtic said:

I would suggest reading about Italy in the 1100-1500s to see what happened with that form of nation.

Celtic,

Can you recommend any good online resources we can check out on this subject? Or perhaps a book title I can pick up from Books-A-Million? I'd like to see what you're talking about here. Also, if you would care to elaborate on this subject in this thread I'm sure it would be interesting.

God Save the South,
CornFedReb

[droc0794]

I've got an update for your research cornfed...

I'm basically between barksdale afb and fort pold in leesville, due to some work that I am involved with, I am privy to a little extra info .......
the numbers you have on barksdale have nearly doubled...and as far as polk, its numbers are twice that of virginia...

I think we would all be amazed if we were to see the true figures....what you have posted is only what the gov wants citizens to know about

[Celtic Jaeger]

Ok, cornfedreb give me a few days and I will have info for ya.

On the Nuke issue, the Gov. knows where they are, DUH, Don't ya think its just a wee bit possible they might just blow the sh!t out them places on the asumption that the south "might" use 'em? Think people...they ain't gonna watch nukes fall into "rebel" hands.

[CornFedReb]

Celtic said:

On the Nuke issue, the Gov. knows where they are, DUH, Don't ya think its just a wee bit possible they might just blow the sh!t out them places on the asumption that the south "might" use 'em? Think people...they ain't gonna watch nukes fall into "rebel" hands.

When the Soviet empire broke up thousands of nuclear weapons fell into the hands of the break away republics. I guess the mighty Russian empire was being led by a bunch of dumb @$$e$? The Russians had to broker deals with all the independent Republics that had control of the weapons (and a whole lot of other military equipment).

Bear in mind that all the nukes I'm talking about in the South are not permanently silo-bound like many are up North. They are all transportable and intended for use on aircraft, submarines and surface ships which means that if Southern forces get their hands on them we can move them anywhere we want to. Of course all of this is just hypothetical talk (for the book we're working on, ya! that's it!) Many things could change between now and the day the first state seceeds but these are all things to think about.

A lot of equipment is going to fall into the hands of Southern forces. Where's the feds going to move Ft. Bragg to? There's not much the feds can do about it. If things happen fast like they did in 1861 (or when the Berlin Wall came down) quick thinking Southern commanders with foresight will secure for the South the necessary tools to win our independence.

If you're going to play a chess game with the Beast you need to be several moves ahead of your opponent. In this case our opponent is the world's last super power. Better get to thinkin'.

God Save the South,
CornFedReb