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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 25, 2005 9:16:56 GMT -5
A Moron from the County I live in, here in Florida want the County to change it's name. What a MORON! ----------------------------- www.winktv.com/x13511.xmlMan Wants County's Name Changed January 24, 2005 By Holly Wagner A Fort Myers man says Lee County honors the wrong civil war leader for the wrong reasons. Lee County is named after a man who probably never set foot in the area. But his name and pictures are engrained in the county's history. So much that a bigger than life size portrait of Confederate General Robert E. Lee dominates the commission chambers. It has taunted Anthony Thomas for quite a while. "I go down there and speak often. It really turns my stomach to see that picture," says Thomas. He's tired of seeing Lee's name, one of the Civil War's most famous general's represent our county. "I thought he fought for the wrong side and he didn't believe in what was justice." Thomas would like to see the county to be named after Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr. He's asking Lee County's Black Advisory Board to pass the issue along to the commissioners. "I think there's a great silent majority who would agree that the county should change its name," says Thomas. Local Historian Matt Johnson says, "I would guess it would meet quite a bit of opposition." Johnson says General Lee is a name people associate with this area. "To hold him up as representing slavery I think is a big mistake, that's not what he represents," says Johnson. "He was also revered in the North and the south as an excellent General an excellent man held to the highest standards whether you talk to a southerner or a northerner." A man who was so respected by Confederate Officer F.A. Hendry, the prominent Fort Myers named the county after him. A name Thomas says he'll fight to change. "As Martin Luther King Jr. and Abraham Lincoln have shown us, you can do the hard difficult things, justice will prevail," says Thomas. Lee County's Black Advisory Board will discuss the idea Monday night. The last time a county in Florida had its name changed was Miami-Dade in the early 90's. |
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Post by GrayGhost on Jan 25, 2005 10:56:43 GMT -5
I don't need to read any farther than this to know that we are dealing w/ a racist black who doesn't have a clue of what he is babbling on about, and that he has no clue of who General Robert E. Lee was or what he stood for other than that he lead the Confederate forces.
It astounds me how many ignorant blacks automatically jump on a Confederate hero without knowing the first fact about them. Guess that revisionist brainwashing the Federals are teaching in school is really taking, eh?
General Lee may very well have visited Lee County Florida. He traveled to springs & spas during his life for both his wife's health, and later his own failing health. Bet they didn't read that fact in a book.
Too bad more council chambers do not hold such portraits of such a great man. There is not a politician on the face of this planet that would not be well served to emulate one of the greatest men that ever lived.
Too bad. Martin Luther King was a communist w/ Marxist ideas. He was arrested more than a few times, and even his followers came forward to accuse him of using church donations to have wild sexcapades w/ up to three white prostitutes at a time, sometimes beating them after paying extra money to do so. Real great role model those blacks have, yet the entire country must deal w/ MLK Day, streets, buildings, schools, and scholarships named after him.
Sounds like to me the difference between MLK & Genl Lee is that Lee was Christian, an officer and soldier of the highest caliber, a leader, and a gentleman. MLK was a lying, scheming commie who pulled the wool over the eyes of an entire race.
Take some Tums you sissy!
I would put General Robert E. Lee up against any black person in history and the black would come up wanting.
I bet this moron thinks Genl Lee held slaves and tried to keep the institution of slavery around too.
Anyone want to make a bet this jerk is tied into the NAACP and this is another attempt to keep that racist hate groups name in the headlines?
I truly hope the local SCV, LoS, and citizens of Lee County are ready to fight this tooth and nail. Everyday we are reading about more and more assaults on our heritage and history by blacks and their organized hate groups. If we do not draw a line in the sand, the "politically correct" nature of the current politicians sitting in power and the apologetic demeanor w/ which they approach all black complaints will have Lee County renamed "Martin Luther King" County in no time flat.
I hope this is the case. If blacks have their way they will rewrite, eradicate or erase every trace of our heritage.
No man in history is more deserving of being revered than our beloved General.
I pray that God in Heaven will see this fool fall flat on his face and the name given to this county for our greatest leader shall remain in place for all time.
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 25, 2005 19:39:21 GMT -5
BOB JANES
DOUG ST CERNY
RAY JUDAH
TAMMY HALL
JOHN ALBION
Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398
The above are the names of the Lee County Commissioners and the address to send them a letter. I would urge all to write a polite and informative letter to the commissioners including the fact that Lee did NOT support slavery and in fact released his inherited slaves before the war. On the other hand, Grant had slaves before, during and AFTER the war.
I thank the fast moving gathering of information by Cmdr Rob Gates that got us these names and address.
Robert Lloyd
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Posts: 688 | From: 071BN 27FF - Florida | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged |
IRONCLAD
CSA Moderator
Member # 6954
posted 01-25-2005 19:10
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To the SW FL LoS Chapter members and friends of:
This was only a matter of time that this was going to happen. However, we will not allow this and will be at the Lee County Commissioners meeting in February. We will make sure that we will also work in conjuction with Cmdr Rob Gates and the Wm Footman SCV Camp here in Ft Myers. Reportedly, it appears unlikely the change would occur for only the expense of changing all signs and the many buildings in our county, though that is not our point here of course.
I will update you as more information is gathered.
Robert Lloyd
Chapter Chairman
SW FL LoS
WE MUST STAND AND FIGHT FOLKS ! THIS IS OUR HERITAGE AGAIN UNDER ATTACK-WHO WILL WRITE THE COMMISIONERS AND WHOM WILL MAKE A STAND AT THE COURT HOUSE WITH ME
LEE COUNTY- Lee County is named after Robert E. Lee, the Confederate
General from the Civil War. Some people say he doesn't deserve to have a
county named after him and want the county's name changed. The Black
Advisory Board will take the idea before the Lee County Commissioners in
February.
Lee County was named after Robert E. Lee on May 13, 1887 when the county
separated from Monroe County. Lee's portrait hangs proudly on the second
floor of the old Lee County Courthouse.
Anthony Thomas, a member of the Black Advisory Board, believes Lee
doesn't deserve the recognition.
"I'm glad he didn't win the war, that's for sure," said Anthony Thomas,
Black Advisory Board member.
Thomas says Robert E. Lee represented everything wrong about freedom and
doesn't reflect the true meaning of what the United States stands for.
"I think that when we are in a war and we're fighting for freedom in
Iraq and Afghanistan, sending our troops in harm's way to fight for
freedom. Then to have something look up upon when we come back to our
own land, a man, Robert E. Lee who stood against freedom, a man who
stood for slavery and a man who if he had his way, we wouldn't be the
United States of America," said Thomas.
Could the county's name be changed? The name Lee would have to be
removed from many buildings, historical markers and signs throughout the
county.
"I think it's silly," said Ray Judah, Lee County Commissioners.
Judah says changing the name of the county would be a waste of time and
taxpayer money
"The process that would be involved in changing the name would be so
cumbersome and so expensive and it's really absurd," said Judah.
The Lee County Black Advisory Board voted 6 to 0 on Monday night to
explore renaming Lee County. The board plans to discuss the issue with
Lee County Commissioners in February, which is black history month.
Thomas wants to put the issue on the November 2006 ballot to let the
voters decide. The matter would still need approval from the state.
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I forgot that Robert gates fro mthe SCV had joined the LOS.................FIGHT they sure are going to get one, rather they want one or not............!
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The LOS, SCV, and UDC are on top of this. I belong to the SCV and the LOS there and we help out the UDC as well.
Time to Fight.
IRONCLAD
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 25, 2005 19:42:56 GMT -5
The guy said that, looking at Robert E. Lee's painting makes his tummy turns.......the Funny thing about the Painting is......Robert E. Lee. is wearing a Union Uniform, not a Confederate uniform like you may think.
Plus the Painting was stolen just a couple of days ago.
We are now, hopping mad....time to fight.
IRONCLAD
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 26, 2005 9:39:57 GMT -5
Lee County Commissions Meeting 25Jan05 (report)
To: The National LoS Staff and FLLoS Staff and State Chairman Randy Ward:
Re: Attempted Renaming of Lee County Florida
As many of you have already heard, a member of the Lee County Florida Commissioners ‘Black Advisory Board,’ a Mr Anthony Thomas, has started a drive publicly to have the name of Lee (Robert E Lee) removed officially as the county name and replace it with some as yet undecided but rumored names such as Grant or Lincoln. This has caused a stir not only in Lee County (Ft Myers) but also nationally via television and radio talk shows such as Neal Boortz, as one example.
Tonight, a regular meeting of the Lee County Commissioners commenced at 5PM with as many as 20 people from various Southern Heritage and Southern political groups. We had representatives of the FLLoS, SCV, UDC, ORC, DAR, and clergy with many signing up prior to the start of the meeting to have the right to talk for 3 minutes each on their views of the proposed name change directly to the commissioners.
Anthony Thomas was the only one there FOR a name change.
At the start of the meeting commissioner Ray Judah (liaison to the Black Advisory Board) addressed the board and those in attendance and proceeded to call for the dissolving of the Black Advisory Board as it has not acted in the capacity of what it was created for in keeping abreast of problems in the black communities concerning unemployment, racial unrest, and crime. Instead Mr Judah witnessed an out of control meeting last night (Wednesday) of the Black Advisory Board with people yelling and physically intimidating others at the meeting and causing at least one resignation from the board. Mr Judah pointed accused Mr Anthony Thomas of being the perpetrator at this meeting and was personally outraged at such behavior. Mr Judah went so far to say that this was not a racial issue as many in the Black community are offended at Mr Thomas’ behavior as is the local NAACP appalled by him.
Following Mr Judah’s remarks Chairman Doug St. Cerny then called forward those that wanted to speak on this subject of a proposal by Mr Thomas of renaming of Lee County. Approximately 8-9 people, including myself representing the FLLoS (looking good in red:-) and Rob Gates representing the FL Div of the SCV along with the many others, gave a defense opposing the name change.
During the various individuals speaking it should be pointed out here to everyone reading this that the commissioners as a whole (five) were supportive of our arguments and even went so far in trying to stop anymore attempts at adding to the facts of why there should be no name change. Commissioners Ray Judah and John Albion could make for two good heritage defenders should they ever need further employment with Judah going so far as mentioning to antagonist Mr Thomas that Lee was against slavery (among other things), along with some other excellent points that made me wonder if maybe he was secretly a member of the South Carolina LoS Rangers as I hadn‘t seen his name on our own Florida membership list! Commissioner Albion stated the chance of this renaming of Lee County was so remote and with such little support (one person it appears) and such a waste of everyone’s time that he wanted the commission to move on to important matters of our community. Other commissioners were caught nodding their heads in agreement with many of our pro South speakers.
Following the meeting most of our group approached the commissioners and shook their hands in appreciation and had pleasant exchanges for all. Several commissioners even appeared to go out of their way to make sure they shook our hands and a smile. (Yes, they are politicians) We also met with Anthony Thomas and had a nice time talking to him and invited him to the next meeting of one of the various groups (I told him I will buy his dinner should he accept) and he in turn invited me to the Black Advisory Board meeting. And maybe I will surprise him and show up (with my red shirt of course:-)
Now the next meeting of the Lee County Commissioners will be in February (will update on exactly when and where) and the name change proposal WILL be on the agenda officially. We will be calling on everyone we can from every group in Florida to show up in support of a fine County Commission Board and make sure they don’t do the old political ‘about face’… You never know.
We will need to present LoS member and SCV Camp Cmdr Rob Gates with a ‘Forrest Award’ as no one could have rounded up support and addressed the issues and thus “Got There First With The Most” better than he did the last 24 hours.
Deo Vindice,
Robert Lloyd
SW FL LoS Chapter Chairman
“The Blockade Runners”
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Post by GrayGhost on Jan 26, 2005 11:13:54 GMT -5
The guy said that, looking at Robert E. Lee's painting makes his tummy turns.......the Funny thing about the Painting is......Robert E. Lee. is wearing a Union Uniform, not a Confederate uniform like you may think. So someone opted for the politically correct and went w/ a painting of him in his Yankee uniform before the War? Sad. General Lee looks far better in grey. Are you kidding?!? Someone stole the bloody portrait? Anyone care to wager it was not stolen at all & that the bloody council took it down and stashed it to avoid the brewing fight between whites and blacks over it hanging in the council chambers? My opinion is Ironclad that you will not have to look any farther than your own county council to find the perpetrator. |
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 26, 2005 19:26:00 GMT -5
Some more letters about the name change. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NBC2 News Online - Local board wants county's name changed From: eastreb@clicksouth.net To: comments@nbc-2.com I just visited this page at www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=2399 and wanted to share my comments about it: Anthony Thomas is an IDIOT. Robert E. Lee did not support slavery. He freed his step fathers slaves, that he was to inherit, before the war. Unlike the idolized US Grant who kept his slaves until he was forced to free them according to the thirteenth amendment, AFTER THE WAR. Lee was offered the command of the entire Union army by Abraham Lincoln (who was as racist as they came back then) before the war and the only reason he declined was because he could not turn his back on his family and his state and illegally wage an unconstitutional war against them. Lee was a devout Christian and his character, virtue and loyalty to his state of Virginia should not be trashed by a bunch of ignorant crybabies such as the Black Advisory Board. Lee fought with honors in the Mexican war, served with distinction at Washington and Lee college and to this day not one historian has ever been able to find ONE blemish on his devotion to his state or country. Does everything he has done for America before and after the war become null and void because of four years of commitment to what was the Constitutionally formed Confederate States of America? Lee had more patriotism for this country and the constitutions original intent in his little finger then the whole of the Black Advisory Board does in their small collective minds. In the Black Advisory Board's twisted and socialist way of thinking we better start removing all mention, statues and pictures of Abe Lincoln because he said time and time again that he was not in favor of equality of the white and black races. Look it up, it is right in his writings and speeches for all those with open minds to see. LEE NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN HIS WHOLE LIFE. But Mr. Thomas and the Black Advisory Board choose NOT to see THAT. They choose to see what is a real American Hero go down in the flames of their historical ignorance,UNERANED INFLUENCE, lust for power and racist attitudes. They are acting in typical knee jerk fashion to what is becoming an over sensitive society. It's a dangerous step to take because if you follow this kind of stupid reasoning, which is by the way done out of misrepresentation, false history and misguided logic, to it's predictable end you wind up taking down the stars and stripes and replacing it with the hammer and sickle. But maybe that is what the Black Advisory Board wants. Makes you think doesn't it? By the way, why does an organization that identifies itself as the "BLACK advisory board" complain about racism under every rock when it's very name implies that it is all about one race. I thought the idea of anti racism was NOT to promote one over the other. If the Black Advisory Board wants to change a name because it has racist connotations they should start with their own organization's name. People that refuse to learn complete and true history should not be in charge of changing it. The people of your county should have you all thrown out on your collective ears for even suggesting such a travesty to the honor and memory of a great man. Richard Uhlig Texas (..."The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." ~ Frederick Douglass, 1857 ) *********************** Change name of Lee County, Florida? From: reinout_temmerman@hotmail.com To: dist1@leegov.com, dist2@leegov.com, dist3@leegov.com, dist4@leegov.com, dist5@leegov.com, questions@leegov.com CC: feedback@news-press.com Dear Commissioners of Lee County, Though I am no resident of Lee County the Black Advisory Board's decision to try to rename Lee County has drawn my attention. Having had the pleasure of visiting Southwest Florida last year I found the region magnificent and the people very friendly and warm. I intend to return to the area as soon as money and time allow me to do so. However I am disturbed by a proposal to change Lee County's name. It is clear that a move to rename Lee County is ridiculous for two very obvious reasons: 1. Robert E. Lee did not stand for slavery and against freedom, as Mr. Thomas claims. Lee stood for the exact opposites. General Robert E. Lee freed the slaves he had inherited before the War began unlike his Northern counterpart General U.S Grant who was a slaveowner until the passage of the XII Amendment, well after the C.S.A. was defeated. Robert E. Lee stood for States' Rights which was the Cause of the C.S.A. The North stood for a more centralised government. It is clear that persons enjoy more freedom under a limited government than under a huge centralised government. The War was not fought over slavery as Abraham Lincoln favored a Constitutional Amendment that would have perpetuated the institution of slavery in the USA. Had the CSA been interested only in preserving slavery they would have rushed straight back into the Union. They didn't. Also consider that the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued until 1863 (two years into the War) and freed only those slaves in Confederate held territory, not touching the status of single slave in areas and states loyal to the USA. 2. I can imagine though that even in such a nice region as Lee County, FL there must be difficult and pressing issues to manage such as crime, health care, social security, etc. that require lots of time and taxpayer's money. One of you called renaming Lee County "absurd” Labeling this attempt to use taxpayer's money in order to rename the County and thereby catering to special interest groups is absurd indeed. I ask you not to seek a sort of compromise to meet the demands of the Black Advisory Board such as removing Lee's portrait from the Commissioners Chamber. Please hold in mind that compromise is often followed by concession. Removing Lee's portrait means opening the door to changing Lee County's name. I trust that all of you will do what is right holding the above in mind. Yours sincerely, Reinout Temmerman Oudenaarde, Belgium |
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 26, 2005 19:26:44 GMT -5
"The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I become convinced it has any other object, or that the Government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the abolitionists, I pledge you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side." --- U.S Grant I am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position." --- Abraham Lincoln's reply to Stephen A. Douglas, 21 Aug 1858 *********************** NBC2 News Online - Local board wants county's name changed From: cscitizen@alltel.net To: comments@nbc-2.com Instead of changing the name of Lee County & everything else under the sun save the taxpayers of this county some money & just change councilmen. Billy E. Price Ashville Alabama *********************** Lee County Florida Contact Information From: sr1952@prodigy.net Everyone: Here is some contact information for county commissioner of Lee County Florida. Please keep in mind, the commissioners are not the ones who came up with the idea to change the name of Lee County, (that was done by a man named Anthony Thomas and the "Black Advisory Board". However, this Advisory Board apparently will present the idea to the CC in February. Please call, email, write, or fax these people. Be nice, short, and to the point, if possible. Lee County Web-Site www.lee-county.com/meetcommissioner.htm Bob Janes: - E-Mail: dist1@leegov.com Phone: (239)-335-2224 FAX: (239)-335-2355 Mailing Address: Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398 Douglas St Cerny: E-Mail: dist2@leegov.com Phone: (239)-335-2227 FAX: (239)-335-2599 Mailing Address: Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398 Ray Judah: 239-335-2223 - Email: dist3@leegov.com Phone: (239) 335-2223 Fax: (239) 335-2321 Mailing Address: Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398 Tammy Hall: E-Mail: dist4@leegov.com Phone: (239) 335-2226 FAX: (239) 477-2054 Mailing Address: Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398 John Albion: E-Mail: dist5@leegov.com Phone: (239) 335-2225 FAX: (239) 335-2892 Mailing Address: Box 398, Ft. Myers, Florida 33902-0398 *********************** What if the Race Baiters spoke and nobody listened? From: ConfederateSon1949@yahoo.com There is an old adage that goes something like this... "The child who cries the loudest and longest gets lifted." Given the general nature of children, if we follow this adage to its logical extension, the more we lift the child when he cries, the more he will cry to be lifted. Solution to this dilemma? Let the brat sit there and bawl his eyes dry. The currently unfolding episode of minority whining being acted out by the Black Advisory Board in Lee County Florida is a typical example of what happens when political pandering has been allowed to run amok. The more these "oppressed" crybabies whine--the more they complain about being offended by a heritage they care nothing about--the more they get. To say that they know little about the true history of our Confederate heritage is a given. What’s more, they care little about learning. What they want is attention--someone who will listen to them and pander to their needs and wants. And in the increasingly socialistic system we live under, that means more government handouts. The NAACP is an avowed enemy of our Confederate heritage. They have, as a publicly acclaimed agenda, the elimination of every Confederate flag, monument and symbol from the public face of our Southern landscape. No one can possibly doubt their intentions. Why do we even continue to listen to them? We are only compromising with an enemy who is devoted to our genocide when we do so. I say, let them sit and whine. When the baby gets ignored, he stops crying... after a while. K. Steven Monk Sergeant at Arms Eli P. Landers Camp 1724 Lilburn, Georgia |
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 27, 2005 0:25:49 GMT -5
Looks like we won this fight......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Janes Dist1" <DIST1@leegov.com>
To: sr1952@prodigy.net
Dear Ms. Raburn,
The Lee County Board of County Commissioners informed Mr. Anthony Thomas last evening in the BOCC Public Hearing that they have no interest in changing the name of Lee County. Our community was named Lee County by the State Legislature over 117 years ago in honor of General Robert E. Lee. This is our identity in the state, the nation, and the world. It will not be changed nor will his portrait be removed from the County Commission Chambers!
Mr. Thomas should put his efforts toward other important issues in the community such as employment issues, education, affordable housing, etc. Changing a name does not change existing conditions, concerns, and issues within a community.
In February, the BOCC in its monthly Management and Planning Workshop will not speak to the changing of the name of Lee County, but instead will discuss changes to the Black Affairs Advisory Board possibly dissolving this Board and creating a Minority Affairs Board in its place.
Thank you for taking time to share your comments. If Commissioner Janes or I may be of any further assistance to you, please feel free to contact us.
Nan Summerall Gonzalez, Executive Assistant
Commissioner Bob Janes, District #1
Lee County Board of County Commissioners
P.O. Box 398
Ft. Myers, FL 33902-0398
Dist1@leegov.com
239/335-2224 (office)
239/335-2355 (fax)
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Post by GrayGhost on Jan 27, 2005 12:26:59 GMT -5
HURRAH!!!
A victory for Lee County, FL, a victory for Southern heritage, and a victory for our beloved General Lee.
Congrats Ironclad!
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 27, 2005 23:31:03 GMT -5
All I did was post the info to have people respond....I'm still writing my letter to them....I'll post it when I'm finished with it......most likely tomorrow night.
I have until Feb. to send it...
I might even let them think we have forgot about it for a week....then I'll flood them with my Letter..... I believe you'll like mine.
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Post by CornFedReb on Jan 28, 2005 18:27:15 GMT -5
Some more letters about the name change. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "He freed his step fathers slaves, that he was to inherit, before the war...." Richard Uhlig Texas "General Robert E. Lee freed the slaves he had inherited before the War began..." Reinout Temmerman Oudenaarde, Belgium With all due respect to Mr. Richard Uhlig of Texas and Mr. Reinout Temmerman of Belgium and respect for the truth I must politely correct their statements. Robert E. Lee did not free his slaves before the War. They were freed on 29 December, 1862 when, on that day, General Lee filed the deed of manumission with the court of the city of Richmond. As one of 5 executors of the will of George W.P. Custis, Lee's father-in-law (not-stepfather) Lee came into possession of 63 slaves. According to the last Will and Testament of Mr. Custis, these slaves were to be set free within 5 years of his death. Mr. Custis died on 10 October, 1857. His Will was probated on 7 December, 1857. General Lee freed those slaves on 29 December, 1862. That was 5 years, 2 months, and 19 days after Mr. Custis's death. Those slaves worked on General Lee's plantation for 2 months and 19 days longer than the Will allowed even though the deed of manumission could have been filed in 1857, 1858, 1859, 1860 or 1861. General Lee was in no hurry to free the slaves under his control and he shouldn't have been. Slavery was a lawful enterprise at the time and Lee was no radical abolitionist. If General Lee did anything wrong at all it might have been keeping the slaves 2 months and 19 days longer than stated in the Will but with all he did for Dixie I think we can forgive him. Ill-informed mistakes like this will get us tripped up and make us look foolish by our enemies if we are not careful. Our enemies won't respond by saying we're merely ill-informed, they'll call us liars. But, other than that little detail I wholeheatedly support everything the two gentlemen wrote and I applaud the quick actions by all involved to rally the troops on such short notice. Three cheers for the victory in Lee county. But let's not go to sleep yet. God Save the South, CornFedREb |
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Post by IRONCLAD on Jan 28, 2005 19:22:21 GMT -5
Cornfedreb.....I read that too......But, what can you do though?
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Here is my reply to the name change.
...................................
Lee County Commissioners: 28Jan.05
Anthony Thomas’s comment;
"I thought he fought (General Lee) for the wrong side and he didn't believe in what was "justice"."
Let me talk about "justice" for a minute here.
Anthony Thomas, well he thought wrong. By his own words, he doesn't know too much about American history. For had he knew the real truth about the War of Southern Independence, then he would have known the real tyrants of freedom were U.S. Grant and Abe Lincoln.
Lincoln in his own words didn't want freed slaves running loose in America. Lincoln’s comment about Southerners: "If slavery did not exist amongst them, they would not introduce it. If it did now exist amongst us, we should not instantly give it up." Lincoln on freed slaves: "My first impulse would to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land. But a moment's reflection would convince me, that whatever of high hope (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution in impossible."
Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation actually freed no one. He did not free any slaves in areas of the country controlled by the federal government. He freed only slaves in the areas where he had no control over.
Quote from Lincoln, "What then? Free them, and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this: and if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of white people will not....... A universal feeling, whether well or ill-founded, cannot be safely disregarded."
U.S. Grant didn't free his slaves until one year after the war was over. Grant even stated why he didn't free his slaves by saying, "Good help is hard to fine." Until the 13th. Amendment, Grant was then forced to free his slaves.
Question is: Who was the person who denied Justice to the slaves?
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It's sad to know, Americans after the war were taught the winners lie. The U.S. government would have you believe the Confederacy war the ones who were responsible for shipping the slaves over here in the first place. Not one ship sailing under the Confederate States flag ever shipped slaves into America. On the other hand, the U.S. flag had flown over many slave ships coming into America.
The U.S. government would also have you believe there were no other races fighting for the Southern cause. They (U.S.) wants you to believe whites only were in the ranks of the Confederate Army. This is not true, folks of all backgrounds fought alongside the whites in the Confederacy, for example; slaves, freed slaves, Irish, Jewish, Indians, and I could go on and on, but you get my point.
Before and during the war the South had integration. Example: (Before) Some blacks, freed or not, owned their own businesses in the South. Blacks, freed or not were able to go into any other businesses in town without being told to leave because they were black. Not until after the war and Reconstruction of the South is when segregation began.
(During) In the ranks of the Confederate army you had black soldiers fighting along side white soldiers. The Confederacy had American Indians who held rank as high as Brig. General. The Confederate army promotes a woman to the rank of Captain for her outstanding job as a Confederate spy.
In the Union army, you had segregation. Example: (Before) Black folks were treated as second class citizens up in the North. (During) For the most part, whites and blacks of lower ranks did not fight along side one another. At the beginning of the war, black soldiers were not allowed to fight. They were only allowed to preform duties such as; earthwork building, laundry, and burning of human waste. They were denied the same pay as what the whites were paid. The blacks were not allowed to hold an officers position in the ranks of the Union army.
Don't get me wrong, you had the white soldiers preforming the same duties, but only when there were no black soldiers to be had to preform the duties. Face it, the black soldiers in the Union Army were just slaves, just under a different name.
Question is: What country denied justice to the African people once they arrived in America as slaves?
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Fredrick Douglass was a Runaway Slave.
Frederick Douglass, Douglass' Monthly, IV [Sept. 1861,] pp 516 - "there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still." "Negroes in the Confederate Army," Journal of Negro History, Charles Wesle, Vol. 4, #3, [1919,] 244-245.
A known fact: Before the War of Southern Independence, the first State to outlaw any more slave ships from coming into their ports was......Virginia. That's right, a U.S. Southern State was the first to ban all slave ships flying the U.S. flag (or any other flag for that matter) in their ports.
Robert E. Lee -
The patriot who our county was name after. General Lee opposed slavery. He viewed slavery as an "evil" thing that has ever fell upon this country.
Quote from Lee, the Christian: "[It will be seen that the abolitionist] contend for the ruin of the present American Church and the destruction of the present Union. That the pulpit is denounced as the great stronghold of slavery. The founders of the Constitution and the fathers of the Revolution "swindlers", in accomplishing that which after fifty years trial is found to be a curse and not a blessing." Letter to Mary Custis, 13 April 1840's.
Lee, the patriot fought to defend his State/Country's right to secede and to be free from tyranny by the federal government (which was out of control). President Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to invade the South (another Country). Once Virginia seceded, Lee..... a man of honour resigned from the U.S. army, rather than lead an army against his countrymen or his own family. Lee didn't own slaves at all, his wife on the other hand, inherited some slaves, which Lee freed back in 1863, three years before U.S. Grant freed his slaves.
It's that devotion, for love of his Country, God, and family, which is so admired long after his death and our as well.
Question is: Who really didn't believe in "Justice"?
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Let's take a look what happened after the War of Southern Independence.
After the war, the Union army waged war on American Indians. To justify the war, the federal government wants the American people to believe that the American Indians were savages and uncivilized. This led to thousands of Indians to be murdered, all because the Indians were "Uncivilized" or for what-ever other reasons the federal government had. This isn’t "justice".
So, to answer the question of Anthony Thomas. Did Robert E. Lee fight for the wrong side? Did he do an injustice to the Slaves? I think not. He fought for freedom against tyranny. He fought for Honour and for Duty. This is the man who I look up to, since I've learnt the truth about my Southern Heritage.
He is to me; a Patriot, a Father, a Husband, a God fearing man, a Statesman, a Hero, a man who cared for his troops, a man who cared for his Country, a man who cared for the citizens of America.........
I wish there were more like him.
I wish to see Lee County remain "Lee" County.
Respectfully,
Sgt. McDonald, Luckie
Florida National Guard
Lee County (home)/
St. Johns County (active duty)
Florida
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Post by twayne on Jan 30, 2005 23:31:16 GMT -5
Congrats IRONCLAD!!!
This just proves that evil will only prevail when good men do nothing.
I guess we can still change things (or leave them be as in this case) if we stand our ground and make enough noise.
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